Grant Wilson, a quadriplegic pastor, on disability and grace

Grant Wilson is a pastor who became a quadriplegic after a mountain biking accident in 2021. In this conversation he shares with honesty and vulnerability about his injury and recovery journey, his faith, struggles and hopes. 

This episode explores significant trauma, distress and grief.  It also provides an invitation to grow in empathy and understanding and to think seriously about accessibility and inclusion as it relates to disability.

Grant is an incredible guy, and alongside the enormous challenges he's faced, he’s clearly a person of deep hope and love. 

Watch the short film about Grant's story, 'I'm not Finished Yet': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ymLCuPqiiw

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Transcript

Will (00:02.492)
Grant Wilson, welcome to the Spiritual Misfits podcast. I'm stoked to be hanging out with you this afternoon.

Grant (00:09.154)
Thanks, man. Really good to be spending some time on a Wednesday afternoon. Wednesday afternoon together, yeah.

Will (00:13.636)
Yeah, so good. So let's just start by getting to know Grant Wilson a little bit. How do you like to introduce yourself and what does life look like for you in your current season that you're in?

Grant (00:28.406)
Yeah, so I am a family man. I live on the South Coast of New South Wales. I have a beautiful wife who just about to celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary this year. So that's a bit of an achievement that she's stuck around for that long with me. I have three amazing kids. Zoe is 14, Isabel's 12, and I have a son, Jake, who we adopted in 2020 and he was been in care.

with us for, since he was three and he's 10 now. So we've had him for seven years all up. Yeah. I am a pastor of one of the churches down in Kiama. I have been for 15 years here at KBC, Kiama Baptist Church, originally from Sydney, but I don't know if I could ever, ever make the trek back there. I love the coast too much and I love the people here way too much. Yep.

Will (01:24.988)
Yeah, cool. Awesome, man. Well, I've been following you on, on Instagram for, for quite a while and have seen you've had a pretty significant journey over the last couple of years, which we're going to get into. And I love, um, just your, you know, what you post on social media is, is very encouraging. It's very uplifting, but as we'll get into it comes from, um, some incredible challenge and some really raw, raw experiences you've been through. But before we get into that, what

What did life look like for you growing up, Grant? And at any stage in your story, I like to ask everyone, have you ever felt like a spiritual misfit? Have you ever felt sort of on the fringes of, of faith?

Grant (02:01.87)
Yeah.

Grant (02:05.122)
Yeah, so growing up, yeah, I experienced a really strange kind of start to life. I think you might not know much about that story. I was in foster care growing up for the number of years of my life. And then I got planted into my forever family, the Wilsons. So I was removed from my birth family at the age of between three and four.

suffered some pretty significant trauma and abuse as a child. And that really did formulate for me some really kind of significant difficulties in my identity and that journey, particularly through my teenage years. So I didn't have really a great, great start to life and really kind of probably found myself

later in my teen years, probably 18, 19 years old, really found myself then. Being blessed with an amazing family who I put through the Ringer, the Wilsons, my parents, Joan and Alan, who I just don't know how they did it, I just don't know how they stuck it through. I have so much respect and admiration for them in terms of being a spiritual misfit. I was thinking about that

question and I know you asked that question of everyone on the podcast. I don't know if I feel like a spiritual misfit but I just feel like a misfit in all areas of life. I feel like a misfit being in foster care growing up and the treatment that I received from my church family because of that was probably something not expected.

struggling with identity for a long time, felt like a misfit. And even to this day, I feel totally unqualified to pastor a church. And really, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing a lot of the time.

Will (04:13.189)
Mm.

Will (04:17.372)
How did you end up in ministry, Grant? Like what was the pathway for you to become a pastor?

Grant (04:23.774)
Yeah, so it was about when I was 19 years old and I had this real turning point in my life. As I said, I was in foster care growing up and then I was adopted and I never met my birth father for a number of years, for a long time held this real deep anger for my

for my birth father. And it wasn't till, yeah, about 18, 19 years old that I really felt that I needed to, I don't know if you've experienced like a deep, like a really deep sense of anger and I guess remorse and that feeling towards someone, but it's not, it's an ugly, it's an ugly feeling. So I carried that around for many, many years and I just got, I was exhausted.

Will (05:10.024)
Mm.

Grant (05:23.446)
I was exhausted and tired and I was really pretty broken. And so one of my really trusted friends at the time kind of encouraged me to go on this journey of exploring forgiveness and how I can kind of let go of that burden that I was carrying around. And so yeah, it was 19 when I had this really turning point in my life and I visited the grave site of my birth father.

And I just let him and God have it. And I just kind of let all that anger out and really kind of felt God calling me in the direction of pursuing him. And I went to Bible college merely for the fact of just exploring faith a bit more and exploring the Bible a bit more. I did grow up in a Christian.

Christian home, but that was a really kind of traditional experience of church, which I really didn't connect with very well. And so, yeah, I wanted to explore faith and the Bible a little bit more. And then it just happened to be that I went to college and I stuck around for five years and kind of found my way into youth ministry and then serving in young adults ministry. And now

Chima Baptist Church as one of the pastors here. Yeah.

Will (06:56.116)
Hey, thanks so much for like sharing, um, some of that, you know, difficult stuff from your early years. And I think just foreshadowing like this whole conversation is going to require a bit of vulnerability, um, on your behalf, even to say yes to the conversation, I really appreciate that. And I appreciate you opening up those aspects of your story right at the beginning to Grant. So I'll just honor that and I'm grateful for that.

Grant (07:14.646)
Yeah.

Grant (07:20.522)
Yeah, thanks man. There's nothing off limits, but I did bring a tissue box with me.

Will (07:24.612)
Yeah, well, maybe I'll just let the listeners know you might want to grab your own, um, as, as we go. But, you know, I was saying to you just before, Grant, like a lot of the time, the, the podcast is pretty idea heavy and kind of, I guess, some episodes are particularly, you know, philosophical, theological, looking at, um, people's beliefs and perspectives shifting over time. You know, things I used to believe that maybe I don't believe anymore, but how do I kind of put it back together or?

Grant (07:29.846)
Thank you.

Will (07:53.66)
You know, the evolution that people's faith and spirituality can go through. Um, but for you, the last couple of years has really been a journey of, um, that happening within your body, you know, within your physicality, a very different journey of, I guess, deconstruction and rebuild in a way. Um, do you want to share a little bit about what happened a couple of years ago, this kind of life altering incident? And, um, yeah, just bring us in into that story and what the last couple of years have meant for you.

Grant (08:23.638)
Yeah, definitely. It's probably where it gets a little bit prickly and emotional for me, because that is a day, yeah, that really did change the trajectory of my life and my family's life. So August 16th, 2021. Funnily enough, it was actually the first day of my stress

Grant (08:53.542)
through COVID and leading our church through such significant change and just being, yeah, just change management for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks really took its toll on me as a leader. And so, yeah, the eldership here gave me three weeks stress leave. And it was that first day that I encouraged.

my kids and my wife to go out for a mountain bike ride. So we went to a local mountain bike track and I've been riding mountain bikes my entire life. So that's nothing new to me. And there was an apparatus at this mountain bike track called a whale bone. If you can picture, it's this kind of wooden apparatus and it's got three kind of rolling hills, each like rolling hills probably

one and a half or two meters off the ground. So I lined up my bike and yeah, I just rode over that first rollover and something happened. The apparatus shifted. It wasn't locked into the ground or anything. So it shifted to the right and my front wheel came off that apparatus and I went flying through the air.

landing on the top of my head and instantly breaking my neck. So I was flung into the dirt and I knew straight away that I was in serious trouble. I had absolutely no feeling in my entire body and what had happened is I'd broken my neck at C4 and so you have all these different levels of your spine, cervical, thoracic and lumbar.

And so I've broken my neck and damaged my spinal cord really high at the C4 level and laying in the dirt there. It was probably the most like loneliest, scary, frightening time that I've ever experienced in my life. And I've had plenty of injuries.

Will (11:11.041)
Mm.

Grant (11:22.926)
trauma and adversity, but nothing like looking at your body and it's just completely disconnected from your brain and completely paralysed. So yeah, I was flown to Royal North Shore Hospital. My wife actually came up to me when I was lying in the dirt and I told her I needed an ambulance.

Will (11:34.377)
Hmm.

Grant (11:52.358)
And all she could say to me was, I'm so angry. I'm so angry at you. I can't believe that this has happened. Cause over the last few years, I've really put my family through a whole lot with a lot of injuries, skiing, a skiing injury on my shoulder, my appendix burst and I got septicemia, I had kidney stones. And so I'd been in and out of hospital, in and out of hospital for years. And then this was gonna be

Will (12:16.683)
Oh man.

Grant (12:20.778)
these three weeks for our family were going to be a really a time of rediscovery, of time together of just enjoying one another's company. And I really feel like I have failed.

Grant (12:45.846)
Yeah, I really feel like I've failed my family in putting them through this. Yeah.

Will (12:55.685)
Mm.

Will (12:58.968)
Oh man, I, uh, I knew, I guess the basic details of the story, but, um, the fact that it happened on your first day of leave after COVID, um, I can't imagine, man, that's huge.

Grant (13:08.387)
Oh, mate. It sucks.

It sucks. It was unbelievable. But I needed a rest. And that's what the leadership here, their intention was. And funnily enough, I was in hospital, like on my back for five months and three days having the longest rest I've ever had. So, yeah. Yeah, that's right.

Will (13:33.456)
Yeah, it's one way to look at it. So, um, it's huge, man. Obviously it's, it's something that, um, for most of us, it's hard to even imagine what it'd be like, like you described laying there in the dirt, realizing that suddenly something in your body has so dramatically shifted, um, what was some of the thoughts and feelings when you were in hospital?

you know, during those early days of, um, I guess there's the moment of something seriously wrong here, but as you learned more about what had happened and you're, you're kind of in the hospital sitting there, like as much as you're happy to share with us, what was some of the things you remember in those early days?

Grant (14:19.294)
Yeah, so in the early days, it was like a roller coaster wheel. Um, in the early days I experienced, um, I don't know if you've heard of neuropathic pain or you've probably heard of chronic pain, um, but yeah, I suffer now because of my spinal cord injury. I suffer from neuropathic pain, um, which pretty much what's happening in my body is my brain is cause I can't, I can't feel.

Um, from the shoulders down, I have no sensation. So I do have movement because I'm an incomplete spinal cord injury. Um, but I have no sensation. Everything from the shoulders down is being affected by my injury. And so my brain is sending the messages to my body that something's wrong. Um, but my body's not sending any messages back to my brain. Um, and so what my brain's doing then.

is firing off all the nerves nervous system in my body with the pain signal. And so early days I was in hospital and just in the most unbelievable excruciating pain and it's something that I've I still really find it hard to reconcile.

that experience and also my experience now with pain and healing and the purpose of all of that. But what it was like for me is I was laying, I lay there and I couldn't move and all I wanted to do, Will, was I just, I wanted to give up. Like I, it was probably the...

third day after my surgery and I was just in excruciating pain for 18 hours. I'd just been screaming out uncontrollably and I just wanted someone to hold a pillow over my face and just have all this go away. Surely it was going to be better to meet Jesus than

Grant (16:43.678)
lie there and experience that sort of agony. But yeah, as I said, it was like a roller coaster. I'd have good days where, you know, I'd get movement back in one of my fingers. And it was just like a big, big celebration from everyone. And I thought I couldn't celebrate that because I was like, I wanna, I wanna see, I don't wanna see one finger move. Like I wanna

I want to get out and hop out of this bed and I want to get back to my family. It was in COVID, as you know, and I wasn't allowed any visitors in hospital, um, which just added another complexity to, to my injury and my time, um, in hospital. But yeah, it was really, I've never experienced that sort of darkness and those thoughts, uh, of wanting to really.

Will (17:25.214)
Mm.

Grant (17:43.102)
I, if I could have, I just, I really in that moment, and there's no sugar coating, I wanted to end, I wanted to end this life that I was experiencing. I just didn't think I could do it. I thought my life as it is, the life that I'd known was, was over. And in one sense, that life that I did know, a lot of it is over. And I'm learning to adapt.

Will (18:03.921)
Mm.

Grant (18:13.454)
and fit into family and community and back into relationships with my friends in a different way.

Will (18:26.424)
We talked kind of briefly before hitting record about how obviously like that, that does create a fundamental shift between how you're related to your body before the injury and afterwards. And I think for most of us, we don't really think about our body that much. You know, we just kind of take it for granted. It's just, it's just there. It's like oxygen. How, how do you, how do you now

Grant (18:26.766)
Thanks.

Grant (18:41.623)
for most of us.

Grant (18:50.919)
Yeah, that's right.

Will (18:54.224)
relate to your body? How do you think about what a human body is and, you know, your body at this point in time, how do you see, um, the goodness of it, the sacredness of it? Do you know like, or yeah, just how you kind of relate to it, given that sort of change.

Grant (19:04.776)
So.

Grant (19:12.918)
Yeah, so that's one of the more difficult questions for me to answer, Will. Um, I've had, I'm a very driven, driven person. I've always set really lofty goals for myself that I want to achieve. And most of them have been physical goals, uh, whether that's a mountain bike riding, um, powerlifting, ultra marathons. I just kind of have my whole life put my body.

through a whole lot and tried to really push this body as far as it could go. And now I live in this, this broken, broken thing that often doesn't do what I want it to do. And so, yeah, I was talking to my,

personal trainer this morning and he asked a very similar question, I think, and he asked a question of how I see myself now when I look in the mirror. And I find it really, really difficult as someone with a disability to look in the mirror and like what I see.

because...

Grant (20:45.986)
this body just does not do what it used to be able to do. And I just want those simple joys of life. Like you said, we don't even think about it. We don't even think about in this short video that I made about my story. And at the end of the...

end of the video, there's a clip of me standing up and giving my wife like a hug. And that is for me, one of the most like significant, beautiful things that I've achieved since my injury. Um, just being able to, uh, in my relationship with my kids as well. Um, I used to be such an active dad.

kicking the soccer ball with my son and going for bike rides with my girls. And now, like that's all, it's all different now. And it's, I feel like it's been stolen from me, those experiences. And so I'm trying to learn to adapt and change and grow in my kind of love and find joy. You talked about joy, but I don't know if I've actually.

found that yet, which is, it sucks. But I haven't found that. And I want to, I want to feel, I want to feel good in this body. And I want to experience joy. And I do, I experienced joy in so many things. But coming from such an active, driven,

Will (22:16.722)
Mm. Yeah.

Grant (22:44.93)
determined, my wife would say stubborn place, to now being 90% of the time in a wheelchair, I have found that extremely difficult to adapt to. Yeah. And I don't know if I'll ever fully adapt to that. Yeah.

Will (23:01.348)
Yeah. I think, I mean, the way that you've described all of that, it makes perfect sense. I can't understand what it's like, you know, to be, to be you and to be what you've been through, but I don't want to, like, I just feel like sometimes the kind of Christian response is to, is to sugar coat is to, is to, um, and I don't mean this in like a,

Grant (23:21.15)
Thank you.

Will (23:29.576)
deeply Christian, I mean this in a Christian culture can mean we try and bypass our pain and suffering. And I actually think, you know, maybe the really Christian thing to do is just to sit in the wound and to actually allow ourselves to feel the full extent of it. And to have your...

It must be such a hard journey, Grant, like there's no way I could, I could, um, I don't want to even act like I can understand it. But in a sense, like the journey of acceptance, I feel like is a lot of what I see, you know, spirituality as coming to accept reality rather than our kind of fantasies to actually come into contact with both the best parts of us and the worst parts of us. And to be able to look at it, you know, with, with God, with spirit.

Grant (24:13.515)
Yeah.

Grant (24:18.508)
Yeah.

Will (24:27.5)
and to accept it. But it's so hard when often a lot of, I guess, we're not, you know, in lots of ways, we're not great at sitting with pain. I'd be interested if you're happy to share, have there been things that people have said to you that have been particularly helpful or unhelpful? Like how have you found the experience of other people acknowledging, entering, being alongside you in some really, really difficult suffering?

Grant (24:29.23)
Yeah. So how?

Grant (24:38.107)
Yeah.

Grant (24:57.266)
Yeah, just on that and sitting in the pain, that comment you made, I think that's one of the really beautiful opportunities that I have had since my injury, is to be able to pastorally and just as a friend sit alongside those that are experiencing similar pain.

And we all experience adversity and trouble and trauma. And to be able to sit in those uncomfortable, awkward places. And I don't have the answer. I don't have the answer about the suffering and pain and why.

why after so many times that I've prayed and called out to God that I still experience this pain, I don't have the answer for that, but I have this really beautiful opportunity to sit alongside those who are also experiencing similar pain and adversity and just talk about it and say, we don't have the answers and

Will (26:20.34)
Mm.

Grant (26:23.446)
yet there is something about.

sitting alongside someone and listening and really listening. But yeah, back to your question about, I don't want it to be, also I don't want this story to be about just so heavy and me crying either. There's also some like, there's some goodness and it's all like, I've laughed. I've experienced joy and laughter since my accident as well. So laugh isn't all doom and gloom for me. Was it helpful things first?

Will (26:43.64)
Oh, but man, I appreciate it's... Yeah.

Grant (26:58.634)
Have I experienced what's helpful?

Will (27:00.036)
Yeah, just either way, how have you found other people? Um, I mean, I'd be interested, you know, again, you don't have to go into specifics, but in terms of your, your dynamic at church as a pastor, I think it's quite interesting, Grant, like just thinking about, like for me at this point in time, I have a lot more trust for pastoral people who are open about their, their doubts and their wounds.

Grant (27:18.751)
is worth.

Grant (27:28.887)
Yeah.

Will (27:29.048)
And normally that's related to more psychological kind of wounds and trauma. But I actually, you know, when I, I've watched some clips of you preaching, Grant, and when I see you in your wheelchair preaching, I actually feel like somehow my heart is more open. Because not, not in a way of feeling like sympathy for you, but in just like, it's a sign that in a sense, we all are wounded. We all are.

at times to present ourselves as, you know, more together than we are. So in a way, like, it's kind of, you know, make it a bit of a weird point here, but it actually, like, to me, I sense there's, I can trust where I see vulnerability. And so I'm interested in how the dynamic has just changed with how you relate to people as a pastor, but also how people relate back to you. And yeah, what, you know, I know that people can say dumb insensitive things when they're awkward, uncomfortable.

Grant (28:14.562)
Yeah.

Grant (28:26.318)
They can and they have, yeah.

Will (28:29.297)
Yeah.

Grant (28:31.986)
Yeah, our church community has been amazing throughout this journey. I remember the first time I came back. I was in hospital still and they released me under strict conditions. And I said I just really want to be with my community at Christmas. I just really wanted that.

And I came back to church. No one really knew I was gonna be there that day. And I remember wheeling my wheelchair towards the front doors of church. And I was just absolutely overcome with anxiety. And I think that came from this place of I didn't know how people, I didn't know someone with a disability

before my accident. At church we hadn't had someone in a wheelchair. We hadn't experienced what it's like to care for those with a significant trauma and disability. And so this just rush of anxiety came over me. And also I hadn't been a part of my community for over five

Grant (29:59.562)
became so afraid of what people would think, how they would look at me, what they would say. And I just had to wheel away into the car park and have this moment of pulling myself together. But yeah, what I experienced that day was my family and my community just, and they've been on this journey.

with me as well. It's been really significant for our church community having one of their pastors experience such a significant life-altering event. So everyone's kind of been journeying through the trauma together. And that kind of integration and care that people showed me.

Will (30:45.793)
Mm.

Grant (30:56.318)
Mostly what was helpful for me was the practical care of how our community, I had always as a pastor and it was so.

part of my identity to be always serving and always putting people first and I had experienced that but now I was experiencing that in a whole other way where people were caring for me and my family in really beautiful practical ways making my home accessible so that I could come home early from hospital.

being really gracious with my return to work. And just checking in with my putting, the most wonderful thing for me was putting my family first and caring for my wife and my kids. That is probably the number one thing for me of how people were helpful during that time.

I certainly did have things that weren't helpful during that time. Also, I remember the in hospital, I had this chaplain because you put in your, in your admission, they tick whatever box that you kind of fall into. And so I had this chaplain visit me and she brought with her, well, just as she left talking to me, first thing she said was, um, how are you doing? And this was about.

a month after my accident. I thought, is not the right question to ask. I couldn't move, I was paralysed. I was learning how to actually function in every single way again. And how are you doing? I didn't even bother with an answer to that question. And then at the end of, before she left, she produced this Bible. And she said, I've got, I brought you this Bible.

Will (32:45.413)
Yeah.

Grant (33:07.886)
um for you and she put it on my bed um and I'm a pretty gracious person and I didn't say anything at the time um which is probably a good thing um but I really felt like what I felt like saying in that moment was what like what use is that gonna do for me I can't move um

Will (33:21.012)
Thanks for watching.

Will (33:32.264)
Mm.

Grant (33:35.762)
I can't hold that Bible, I can't pick it up and just to have a Bible on the bookcase or somewhere in your room, what is the purpose of that? She didn't offer to sit and read the Bible with me, it was just felt like this token gesture of like, here's a Bible because you know that's what's most important at this time.

And so I can laugh about that now, but at the time I felt it was super insensitive for someone who was a quadriplegic, who at the time couldn't move at all to expect to produce this Bible for me. I found humor really helpful. My friends in particular make fun of me and fun of, it might sound a bit...

Will (34:09.564)
Yeah.

Grant (34:32.31)
bit hard to hear, but fun of my disability. I find that helpful when they're my friends. Don't get me wrong, don't just pass me in the street and make fun of my disability. But yeah, I find humor good because that's how I relate to a lot of my friends. I remember one of the nurses in hospital came in one morning and that Coldplay song was playing and I'd made a...

this really good relationship with this nurse, this nurse called Alan. And he came in, Coldplay song Paradise was playing and he just said straight away, hey, mate, like, this is your song. Is your song. I was like, what are you talking about? And it got to the chorus of the song. And he said and he started to sing the words. And instead of paradise, he changed, he interchanged that word and said, you're paralyzed because you're para paralyzed. And we both just burst into

burst into laughter just at the situation because we had made that connection and relationship. And so I need a whole lot of that. I need laughter and I need joy because I don't think it's a good thing. I have some really dark moments, but we can't stay in those dark places. I don't want to stay in those places, particularly not for very long. I want to...

Will (35:38.107)
Mm.

Will (35:45.085)
Yeah.

Will (35:51.302)
Yeah.

Will (35:59.697)
Yeah.

Grant (36:01.542)
lift my eyes up and I want to do exactly what Jesus did and he cries out to the Father and he lifts his eyes up out of his despair. I want to be like that. I want to be looking for the way that God is working in and through my life and the people around me, their life also. I hope that I don't know if that answered your question.

Will (36:26.008)
Yeah, well, I mean, who cares about all my questions I hear to do is to get you talking, so who cares what the question is. But, and I really appreciate everything you're sharing, man. I really deeply do. The thing that you just said really does come through your desire to tell your story in a way that

Grant (36:29.038)
for went on a little bit of a major.

Will (36:55.516)
that is positive, that inspires. And that little film, I watched the little film that a friend of yours put together about you. Um, and also, you know, just following you on Instagram, like on the one hand, like following on Instagram is like an amazing insight into how medical technology has advanced and just some of the, the rehab stuff that you post is quite incredible from a scientific medical point of view, but also like just your, I mean, from going to, like you said, you know, moving one finger.

Grant (37:01.934)
Yeah, put together for me then.

Grant (37:12.832)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Grant (37:19.694)
Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

Will (37:25.3)
Um, to actually like grant, you know, you you've walked, you've done all kinds of things that you didn't necessarily expect to do. Um, and the way that you put that out there just really has this strong sense of, um, I mean, I can't think of anybody else that embodies resilience and determination in the way that I see that you are doing so, but do you want to talk a bit about some of those kind of milestone moments and, and just rehab and how you have found like.

Grant (37:46.844)
Yeah.

Will (37:53.844)
positivity along the way, when it, it would make so much sense. Everything you've said about the kind of darkness of it. I think that is the very logical response. And I actually think every time that you, that you laugh, that you joke, that you, you know, attempt to continue with the rehab, like that's, that's defying. The logical response and saying, no, like stuff that I'm, I'm still here. I'm like, do you want to talk a little bit about that side of things?

Grant (38:04.034)
Yeah, and it's-

Grant (38:10.877)
Idiot.

Grant (38:16.886)
Yeah.

Grant (38:20.042)
Yeah, I can definitely touch on that. I am, I, you talked about resilience and determination. I think they're two kind of characteristics that have really been a part of my life for 40 years and my experience of trauma as a child and that kind of not giving up attitude has

definitely been this woven throughout my life. And I also feel an incredible responsibility to my family and my community. I really feel this deep. I don't know if it's a burden because we often think that a burden's a bad thing. Maybe it's not the right word, but I feel this.

deep sense of responsibility to not give up because there's so many people cheering me on and expecting great things. And I want to, you know, I want to prove that first of all, the medical field said that I'd never walk again having a, um, so I am injury so high up.

And so that's been one of my goals. I set this kind of lofty goal to mobilize in my house. I need, because I can't feel, I have no sensation to touch or anything. If you can imagine when you're walking, you can feel the pressure of the ground underneath your feet every time you move. And the mechanics that go into walking with every muscle group.

working in sync at exactly the right time. My body just doesn't do that anymore. My brain, it's like an overload of information that I have to send my body to just take one simple step. And so I had the goal of mobilizing at home without any mobility aid. And that has taken two years to get to there. I started out of hospital.

Grant (40:45.482)
I had a goal in hospital to walk out of hospital. We don't reach all our goals. And so I didn't reach that goal. I wheeled my really cool wheelchair to the car. But over the next few months, there's, and you talked about some of the innovations in technology in rehab, and there's amazing advancements to do with spinal cord injury

and Parkinson's and MS and all these things to get you mobilizing again and retraining your brain in a different way to move. And so RoboFit was set up in Wollongong, just happened to be Australia's first exoskeleton right in Wollongong, which is just half an hour drive from my house. And so I spent an intensive six months there.

using their exoskeleton to mobilize and what it does, it pretty much any sort of movement you have in your body or muscle twitch, it then, if you went to, it's really hard to explain, but as you go to walk, generally you flex your glute kind of first to lift.

your foot off the ground, that tiny little flex that you might have, then the exoskeleton picks that up through all the technology that's connected to your body. And then it moves your leg. It knows what you're trying to do. And so it moves your leg in that way. So you have to give it something. You couldn't use it as a completely paralysed person because you have to give it something into the...

Will (42:13.466)
Mm.

Will (42:25.182)
Wow.

Grant (42:36.63)
machine, but over a six months time of doing that every single day over and over and over again, they're able to turn the dial down on the robot and your body's doing more and more and more. So yeah, some of those milestones, I've also had an amazing physio who has just the same personality as me and is so driven and determined to prove people wrong.

Will (42:51.42)
Wow.

Grant (43:07.21)
And yeah, there's this amazing walk down the South Coast called Drawing Room Rocks. And before he went overseas on a year's holiday, he said, we're gonna climb Drawing Room Rocks, which is an able-bodied person. It's a tiring hike. It's like a four or five K hike, upper hill, like upper hill off on a dirt track with...

Will (43:27.813)
Yeah.

Grant (43:36.61)
boulders and it's hard work. And I just thought that was gonna be so impossible. But I had an amazing team of five people with me. I think we took just under four hours, but I got there. And it's those little, it's not a little achievement, but even though it takes me four hours, the feeling when you're at the top of a mountain after you've had an accident like the one I had.

and all these kind of achievements that you see, it is just the most amazing thing. And I become so overwhelmingly thankful as I look out at creation and I experience God's presence in those times, I become so thankful and so overwhelmed with joy. And now just, I think it's last week.

I achieve at home, I was able to like walk around at home with no mobility aid, no crutches, no wheelchair. I haven't had any falls yet. But it is just my brain is just in overdrive trying to do that. So it's very fatiguing. But yeah, yeah.

Will (44:59.345)
Right.

Will (45:03.38)
It's amazing, man. I mean, well done. I feel like you deserve every congratulations. I mean, there's amazing technology at play there, but there is also, I mean, like you said, you got to give it something. And it's, yeah, your determination, your patience, your grit is huge. Yeah. So I'm interested, Grant, you know, I'm sure that your journey, you're kind of-

Grant (45:16.115)
of hard work. You've got to give it, yeah, just a little bit.

Grant (45:22.25)
A lot of tears. Yeah.

Will (45:31.632)
Actually, at the beginning of our conversation, when you talked about letting out your anger at God, you know, in the context of your biological father, um, that was a moment of, I guess, that honesty, um, expressed in, in prayer or yelling or whatever you want to kind of call it. What, what's your kind of sense of God in this journey been like, um, has it, has it rocked your sense of the goodness of God or, um, has it...

Grant (45:38.828)
Yeah.

Grant (45:43.702)
Yeah.

Will (46:01.104)
how has it shifted how you think about God in and through the last couple of years.

Grant (46:08.078)
Uh, yeah. Yep. It's definitely, um...

Grant (46:13.928)
And yeah, it's definitely.

challenged my sense of God's goodness at times. I felt.

completely lost and lonely as I am.

Grant (46:35.47)
mentioned at the beginning I grew up in a really traditional experience of our church community and really always struggled to resonate with that.

So being paralysed and not being able to open God's word or think of really eloquent, well put together prayers that I'd often spend time on for church services because it was always so important that we say the right things. I felt really lost.

And I just did not know how to relate to Jesus. And in hospital,

Grant (47:36.434)
I really experienced this overwhelming, I don't want to like over spiritualise it. I haven't experienced something like this before and I experienced this really overwhelming personal presence of Jesus, which sounds so ridiculous when you think about I've been

involved in church ministry for 20 years and yet here I am saying I don't know if I had experienced this really personal, rich...

Will (48:15.685)
Mm.

Grant (48:21.038)
presence of Jesus. I feel like a bit of, I feel rather inauthentic saying that. But in hospital, I just had this remarkable experience with God's presence. And each night, I remember one night in hospital, I just was...

going on and on and on, asking the big why question, why me? And I was just drowning in sorrow and I was so angry. Yeah, and I really felt like, I really felt God's presence. And as I closed my eyes in bed,

got this picture of me and Jesus.

Grant (49:29.346)
And I'm like a really logical person. I'm a really kind of logical person. I like to see what's in front of me. I like all my ducks kind of lined up in a row. And so, yeah, as my eyes were closed, I got this picture or this vision or whatever you wanna call it of Jesus by this walking on this river bank.

and kind of gesturing to me to come over to him. And we simply for hours walked alongside this riverbank in silence. I was crying, I wasn't in a wheelchair, I wasn't paralyzed. And we didn't talk about my injury. We didn't talk about

lots of things, but we just talked about life and how I missed my kids and the things I loved about life, the things I felt really hard. And you know, Jesus didn't give me any answers. I didn't get any like big dramatic aha moments. But every night in hospital.

And I have really continued that rhythm into my prayer life, of really withdrawing away from the busyness.

Grant (51:12.33)
business of ministry mate. It sucks and it puts you in a place where

Will (51:14.557)
Mm.

Grant (51:23.03)
It landed me in this place of needing that stress leave and then lying in a hospital for five months. But this rhythm of withdrawing from the busyness and just spending time with Jesus walking alongside this riverbank and sounds silly too, for Jesus to get to know me. Um.

and just spend time with him in the simpleness of life. It's not some eloquent, overly theological discussion that we're having about my injury, but it's just merely spending time with him. And so I've really made an effort to do that and make that a part of my daily rhythm.

And I really think that is being reflected in my ministry. And my focus now and not buying into, we've got to be busy all the time and do more stuff, but just to be with people and to sit with people has been an amazing blessing, an amazing shift in my life. Cause I was going at 110 miles an hour.

And I really feel like I have slowed down a whole lot. And it's been such a blessing to be able to do that.

Will (53:02.46)
beautiful, man. Thank you. I mean, I love that image. And it feels to me like the presence is the thing that it's all I want out of spirituality. For myself to be present, knowing that God is always present, but I am the one who often needs to arrive somewhere or to be somewhere.

Grant (53:24.283)
Yeah, that's right.

Will (53:32.244)
Um, and so I think that image is, is beautiful and is, is a challenge, um, maybe to all of us in, in one way or another. Um, do you feel Grant like, um, you're actually in some ways a better pastor at this point in time? Like how do you, how does it, has changed the way that you think about what it means to, to pastor people?

Grant (53:45.486)
Thanks for watching!

Grant (53:58.878)
Yeah, I think in some ways I find it really, really difficult because I can't serve in the way that I have served all my life in doing things.

Grant (54:15.47)
And so much of my identity was wrapped up around in that. But yeah, I think.

this slowing down and being aware of...

Grant (54:36.77)
being aware that we all experience adversity and difficulty and being able to meet people right in the middle of that. And not that before my injury, I didn't have that sort of.

deep compassion, but I just think it's a lot different for me now. I think I can...

Grant (55:05.166)
I think there's a sort of empathy and a common, there's common ground there that I can really understand. And I can understand that people, I don't need answers anymore. I'm not praying for healing anymore. In hospital, I just was so focused on walking. I was like,

just want to walk, that is going to be the greatest thing. I'm just not praying for that anymore. I'm seeking and praying for wholeness now, that my life would be so saturated by grace, that I'd live this questionable life, that people would see my life and what I'm about and how I've responded.

to this injury and this trauma, both in the good and bad, because I don't want to sugar coat it and say, you know, life's great. And I'm resilient and I've bounced back and it's really hard. But it's given people the opportunity also to be curious about my journey and ask questions. And it's given me the opportunity

to speak into those moments and times with people. So I find it hard to answer and say, yes, I'm a better pastor. I'm still growing and I still wanna learn and I just wanna do the best that I can and honor God in all that I do and all that I am. And I'm...

I certainly don't do that. As we touched on before in, you know, honoring God with my body, I find that really, really difficult. And a journey that I'm on, and I don't know how long that will be. But yeah, I definitely have these amazing opportunities now to share and be with people that are experiencing adversity.

Grant (57:31.694)
and disability also. I think our churches have a whole lot to learn in the disability space. You know, we say, signs up the front that say, all welcome here. And then for me, I only feel disabled when a space is not accessible for me. So how are we adapting and adjusting as churches?

Will (57:37.509)
Mm.

Will (57:53.044)
Mm.

Grant (58:01.062)
to include those who suffer from chronic pain in the way we lead, even worship. What does everyone say when they kick off worship in a church so often? Please stand.

Grant (58:22.254)
Please stand and worship with us. Well, I'm gonna worship here in my wheelchair. So just things around our language and our accessibility of our buildings and things like that. I think we have a whole lot to learn. But as I said before, Andrea, I didn't know anyone in a wheelchair. And so I was in the exact same place.

Will (58:22.26)
Mm.

Will (58:43.877)
Yeah.

Well, man, I just want to say the deepest of thanks for your sharing, for your realness. It's been a huge privilege to sit with you, the Sabo grant. And I really appreciate that you didn't hold back from being real and bringing us into, you know, like the kind of full spectrum of what you've experienced. I guess one image that's in my mind as we talk is that in a sense,

Whilst at an external level, you might look like your life is diminished and restricted, which is all very, very real. I sense that on the interior, if we could see what Grant looks like on the interior, like the rehab that has happened there, so to speak, I imagine that you're the depth of your roots.

Grant (59:33.238)
Yeah.

Will (59:45.816)
Um, would probably put a lot of us to shame. And that's not about saying that you're, you're perfect or that you're kind of like some super spiritual, like, you know, you've been so honest about how that's not the reality, but I think that the, the interior life is where it's at man. And I feel like what you've shared in this conversation has been a window, not just into your, your physicality, but your, your interiority.

Grant (59:50.997)
Thank you.

Grant (01:00:04.173)
Yeah.

Will (01:00:11.804)
which is I hear a rich space and a beautiful space and a space that we, we have a lot to learn from. So, um, just to, uh, to wrap it up, I guess, you know, what, what are the final things that as you reflect on your kind of whole journey, pre-injury, injury, post-injury, um, and the people that might be listening to this, um, who for one reason or another might feel excluded or on the outside or the fringes of a lot of Christian spaces.

Grant (01:00:15.319)
Cheers.

Yeah, thanks Will.

Grant (01:00:24.003)
Thank you.

Will (01:00:38.832)
What would be any final kind of thoughts or messages that would be on your heart to share with people as we wrap up this conversation?

Grant (01:00:47.682)
Um, yeah, I think just reflecting on what you just shared about that, that work that God's doing, um, really inside and it's a work of the heart and that is a lifelong, lifelong journey. It's never gonna be perfect, but as we continue, yeah, to pursue

Jesus and grace, you know grace for me I have to continually pray that his spirit would continue to fill me with grace because there's so many times that I just don't feel like getting out of bed in the morning. I don't feel like having another meeting or

going to church, I don't feel like doing those things.

Grant (01:01:53.354)
but to be continually pursuing.

Grant (01:02:00.59)
grace and love and hope for one another. And I really do believe that those things shape not just who we are, but they shape the people around us. And as we, as Jesus does this amazing work, deep in our heart, that is so evident to the people around us. And they notice

there's something different and they're curious and it gives us opportunities to share and be authentic and real and not to say that following Jesus is going to be great all the time.

Grant (01:02:53.846)
but that he does have an amazing plan and a purpose, even through suffering and adversity. My character has certainly been torn apart and rebuilt. And I just hope that Jesus and his spirit continues to do that through my life for many, many years to come.